Posts by Cold Steel

12

A WT "prophecy" that finally came true?

by eyeuse2badub in

at long last, after 140 years of failed prophecies, it appears that the borg finally got one right!

recall the odd little article published back in the november 15th, 2013 wt about the 7 shepherds 8 dukes (anti-type) and the evil assyrian (anti-type) and some silly nonsense about the assyrians attack on the vulnerable wtbts.

page 20 paragraph 17 of that strange article contained this foreboding prophecy from the faithful and discreet slave, (anti-type);.

Cold Steel

Judge Rutherford got it right then and it is still right now when he said, "Religion is a snare and a racket."

Ummm...I think he was talking about eveyone else's religion.

5

Did JESUS Choose a MANMADE RELIGION?

by Cold Steel in

if jesus was enthroned in 1914, and if he inspected all of the earth's religions in 1919, choosing the wtbts as his, then wasn't he choosing a religion that was manmade?

if he didn't choose it until 1919, then what was the watchtower organization in 1918 or, for that matter, in 1914?

and what happened to the church jesus organized when he said anciently, "i will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it"?.

Cold Steel

If Jesus was enthroned in 1914, and if he inspected all of the earth's religions in 1919, choosing the WTBTS as his, then wasn't he choosing a religion that was manmade? If he didn't choose it until 1919, then what was the Watchtower Organization in 1918 or, for that matter, in 1914? And what happened to the church Jesus organized when he said anciently, "I will build my church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it"?

Indeed, the Watchtower (6.15.64) itself reported: "As Jehovah revealed his truths by means of the first century Christian congregation so he does today by means of the present-day Christian congregation. Through this agency he is having carried out prophesying. All of this activity is not an accident. Jehovah is the one behind all of it."

But did God ever speak through the congregation? Or did he speak through those he called and appointed at the head of the church? And when has he ever chosen from a number of manmade organizations? It would be as if you had three self-appointed prophets, and God was to choose one to be his. But this wasn't the case with Jeremiah, who wrote: "Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." (Jeremiah 1:4-5) Here it appears as though God is taking the proactive role, and not men. But now it's just the opposite. Man is the proactive force and God becomes the passive.

How would the Governing Body explain this?

In 1943 they were so thoroughly bold as to issue instructions as if they came right from God himself: "The Son has returned as King; he has come to his temple. He has appointed his "faithful and wise servant", who is his visible MOUTHPIECE. The Lord breaks down our organization instructions further and makes them more practicable by further instructing us through his "faithful and wise servant."

He [the Lord] says, 'Let us assign the field, the world, to special pioneers, regular pioneers and companies of Jehovah's witnesses in an orderly way, sufficient for everyone to thoroughly witness therein, and let us place on each one the responsibility of caring for the New World interests in these respective assignments." He [the Lord] says the requirements for special pioneers shall be 175 hours and 50 back-calls per month, which should develop into a reasonable number of studies; and for regular pioneers 150 hours and as many back-calls and studies as can be properly developed during that time. And for company publishers he [the Lord] says, "Let us make a quota of 60 hours and 12 back-calls and at least one study a week for each publisher." These directions come to us from the Lord through his established agency directing what is required of us. It is our duty to accept this additional instruction and obey it." (7.1.43, p. 207)

This is remarkable, to say the least. Here's a statement where the leading authorities of the Society are delivering an actual revelation very much like the ancient prophets and spelling out the Lord's instructions regarding workloads to be carried out by the troops. But they've fully committed themselves to speaking for God, even as the ancient prophets delivered it. And yet not one of them claims that the Lord spoke to them as he spoke to the prophets anciently. Again, self-appointed people making assumptions. Doesn't this throw a kink into their charges against Christendom -- that they're all manmade?

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62

Christians not knowing the Bible

by Viviane in

last night a young man in a bar struck up a conversation with me.

our town is having our pride parade soon and he brought it up, the bible and how it's against the bible.

me being me, i said that i couldn't care less that it was against the bible and that it was a horrible guide for morality anyway.

Cold Steel

Well, am I safe in saying that he didn't get your number, even though you got his?

5

Joining another cult... is it an option? Your thoughts..

by StarTrekAngel in

i've just finished reading "freedom of mind" today.

meditating over the many things i've read, one chapter of the book talks about how there could be a situation where more than one family member may have joined one cult, while another member may have joined another one.

it mentions the possibility of using one family member against the other in order to bring them both to questions their own cults.. this hit me home as i had been thinking if joining a cult would be a good idea.

Cold Steel

I'm surprised anyone would make a suggestion like that because I can't see that it would do anything other than create contention. Few people are as fiery as new members, so if you had one family member who is a JW and another who's an evangelical Christian, the only thing you'll get is a knock-down drag-out at best. And at worst you'll get the JW shunning the other family member (and we know how effective that is!).

The only way to get anyone out of a religion is to sew doubt in his or her mind, and often that's difficult to do unless both family members join the same cult, then the one tries to subvert the other. And even that might fall to work. Cults like the Jehovah's Witnesses have a number of failsafes in place. When beset with doubt, members (particularly new ones) tend to go to others within the group for reinforcement. If that fails, there's the threat of discipline. The JWs, more than any other Christian denomination, knows how to identify gaps, seal them off and apply tactics like shunning, which is low and mean spirited. What parent would apply such to their children? Hopefully none.

People also tend to view people who are trying to help them out of a destructive religious group as an enemy. They want the religion to be true, so they will give more credibility to those who try to reinforce their beliefs, even if it involves God choosing their manmade religion more than a hundred years ago and not telling anyone (see Amos 3:7). But something else to consider -- and this is important -- you need to be very careful about unplugging someone from a religion without replacing it with something better. The person may be happy where he or she is, and if you rip their faith from them and abandon them, they could slip into depression and suicide. They may conclude that if the WTBTS is wrong and its leaders wackos and that that if they're wrong, then no religion can be right, especially if they've been told and retold that the others are fit only for destruction. And while many atheists believe that all religious believers should be freed from the shackles of religion, are they willing to do it if they rob their loved ones of their happiness?

62

Christians not knowing the Bible

by Viviane in

last night a young man in a bar struck up a conversation with me.

our town is having our pride parade soon and he brought it up, the bible and how it's against the bible.

me being me, i said that i couldn't care less that it was against the bible and that it was a horrible guide for morality anyway.

Cold Steel

As my daddy used to say about the CHURCH OF CHRIST, “I don't know what they're for, but they're against everything!“

33

This is a topic I am going to kill with my opening post.Why haven`t the Major religions of Christendom exposed J.W.`s as the true Apostates

by smiddy in

i am initially thinking of the major religious institutions of christianity , catholic ,many branches , church of england , and the major protestant religions , too numerous to mention here.. after all their is 40,000 plus christian religions in the world today ?so obviously j.w.`s are not the only false religion .. so my real question is really , to do with the mainstream christian religions , why are`nt they more aggressive in their condemnation of the jehovah witness religion for their obvious failings ,flip backs ,contradictions ,prophecy`s that never eventuated , end of the world predictions ,re-inventing their past history , even distancing themselves from their past history , and their founding members , such as c.t.russell and j.f.rutherford whose policies they now reject... they need to get on board and bleed it for all it`s worth .. smiddy .

Cold Steel

As someone on the outside, I'm afraid the answer may disappoint you.

Most religions, I'm convinced, really don't spend a lot of time thinking about the Jehovah's Witnesses. And those who do only criticize them because they think the JWs are going to an eternal HELL. I know a Buddhist who is visiting the Vatican this month and meeting with the Pope. I've never heard of anyone from the WTBTS even being invited...not that they would go. The Orthodox Church only really goes gunning for the Catholics. Protestants, to them, are only extensions of the Catholic Church. Many people know something about the 144,000, the blood thing or soul sleeping, but that's about it. Islam is the go-to church of the Devil, and it's likely to stay that way until the JWs begin beheading people.

6

Influence of Death in the Mind

by ivanatahan in

most meetings and congregations stress the idea that jehovah's witnesses will live forever on a paradise earth.

most jws are always "comforting" others about how death is only temporary.

then you get those jws who are scared of death.

Cold Steel

You remember on STAR TREK when everyone would get transported down to the surface and it only took a few seconds? There's always been a debate over whether the people beaming down were the same people who appeared at the destination or were they reconstituted copies? Yes, they all appeared to be the same lovable people who stepped on the transporter, but they were clearly not made up of the same molecules as those who were disintegrated aboard the ship. Naturally those who were had the same memories as those who were disintegrated on the ship; to them it appeared only a few seconds had passed, but were they originals or were they Memorex?

People dying on Earth cease to exist, we're told. They take their last breath and then croak. But then cometh the resurrection and everyone is resurrected. But are they the same beings, or does Jehovah re-create them? According to JW doctrine, they're re-created. They all have the same memories as the originals, but the originals are dead...DED...dead! Those who are resurrected are recreations. Same thoughts, same memories.

Remember when Captain Kirk gets in a transporter accident and is spit in two? One of him was good, the other evil. QUESTION: Where was Captain Kirk -- the real Captain Kirk -- while his doubles were causing all the trouble? Ever seen a photo taken years before you were born and wonder, "Where was I when this photo was taken?" You see the same familiar things. Mountains, the ocean, rain, and yes, for some of you, even a young Captain Kirk!

According to JW doctrine, you weren't anywhere. And when you die you're not anywhere. Then, there you are again! But are you you, or just someone who has your looks and memories? Wouldn't you be scared 😨?
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60

Does The Governing Body Have Enemies At Bethel?

by Brokeback Watchtower in

i would think that a lot of resentment is building up for these for these guys at bethel even though it may not be discussed openly for fear of being abused by the gb in some way.. any way looking at their personality and the extreme phoniness of rubber mouth/face lett, and am#3, and the chicken shit coward leosch who won't even show up in court when subpoena'd to defend his faith or policies, and i'm sure they have many more undesirable traits that repel people instead of attract and that has to work its toll on relationships they have at bethel.. and this shunning thing i'm sure must really erk some at god's house and while they may not be free to voice their discontent i feel it must be building because these guys are complete nincompoops when it come to reality and the only way they know how to give direction is with fear and guilt which i'm sure is rubbing a lot of people the wrong way.. and let not forget the issues that are raise when they stole all the congregations savings and the pledge drive for more cash, ban on higher education, lawsuit pay out and etc.... what is this doing to the relation ship they have with legal and accounting i see trouble brewing right thier in the spiritual pair of dice..

Cold Steel

People who want to keep their cushy jobs should not badmouth the folks who sign their paychecks. I say this not to defend the members of the GB as I don't know them like you guys. But I've been a longtime witness of interoffice politics, and I learned early on not to get involved or ally one's self with factions that are vying for power, because management usually knows what's going on, even if you think they don't.

With Bethel, I'd also think most people would be believers, even if they saw the chinks in the armor. And yet, I'd really like to know what the opinions are about the GB guys, how they treat the staff, whether they're vindictive, mean, jocular, petty, wise, scholars about the religion, or even whether they believe or not. I worked for years with the Navy and knew many blue water admirals acting as department heads...and I liked the vast majority of them. (The aviators not so much.) Some of them were like kids, but that's another story.

Among the civilians, the managers were a bunch of backstabbers. Incompetent, promoted well beyond their experience. Idiots for the most part. They'd hide tape recorders, search our desks and our trash. My boss got caught one weekend going through her boss's personnel records in his office. A Navy captain, he wanted to have her keelhauled. But the Personnel Department never let us have any fun.

But at Bethel, what would happen if a woman accused one of the GB of coming on to her, or forcing himself on her? Has it ever happened? Or do the GBers isolate themselves, make sure their office doors are never shut when there's a woman who isn't their wife or family member they're counseling?

Did Franz ever share such stories, and is his book worth reading? Do people usually like working at Bethel?

6

What is your understanding of a christian Minister of God ?

by smiddy in

as i understand it ,a christian minister of god is someone who goes to school gets the opportunity to further their education at a higher level ,then studies greek hebrew , latin , and what is available in ancient manuscripts , and demonstrates they have a comprehension of all these issues.....and of course they would need to get a pass on these subjects.. i think this would be the minimum standard required in the mainstream christian churches ,greek orthodox , catholic, all branches ,church of england ,and most of the mainstream protestant religions.

then we come to jehovah `s witnesses , none of the above applies to them , all they have is , they have been baptized by water immersion into their religion with none of the above qualifications.. and this includes minors , some as young as ten , possibly even younger in some situations who are classed as ministers of god simply by their baptism by water immersion.. they are also on record as saying higher education is a waste of time.why ?

because the end is just around the corner , a phrase that has been repeated and repeated since the year 1914 till now.. what young child could possibly hold their own with a discussion in theology or even comprehend the complexities of christianity with their counterparts.?.

Cold Steel

They are also on record as saying higher education is a waste of time. Why? Because the end is just around the corner, a phrase that has been repeated and repeated since the year 1914 till now.

From my own observation, I believe education not only keeps the rank and file busy, it keeps them mentally maladroit when attempting to understand scripture in its proper cultural and religious context. The folks in charge of scriptural exegesis at Bethel are incredibly...creative in taking Jewish scriptures from two thousand years ago and applying them to insignificant events in WTBTS history. It may be comical to outside observers, but it's sad to see otherwise intelligent people deprived of education for the sole purpose of being controlled. If people go to college they may be tempted to take advanced courses on religion and scripture, and that could easily result in 1) large numbers of people leaving the movement, and 2) a great amount of embarrassment on the part of those who understandably feel duped. I would think if the WTBTS forbids its members from attending other churches, it would absolutely forbid them from participating in secular religious studies. Jehovah's Witnesses state that every baptized witness is a minister of God. Yes, and there's nothing in the scriptures that support that. And if so, why don't regular members baptize their children instead of having some stranger in a cheap pre-fab pool do it in a circus-like atmosphere If the above were true, I'd much rather take my son or daughter to a place they'd remember, then baptize them myself.

The question though, is, who performed the first baptism in the Society? And where did he get the authority? Who was the first minister? How did the WTBTS get the authority to oversee all the baptisms in our day?

As I understand it, a Christian minister of God is someone who goes to school gets the opportunity to further their education at a higher level, then studies Greek, Hebrew, Latin, and what is available in ancient manuscripts, and demonstrates they have a comprehension of all these issues..... And of course they would need to get a pass on these subjects. I think this would be the minimum standard required in the mainstream Christian Churches, Greek Orthodox, Catholic, all branches, Church of England and most of the mainstream Protestant religions.

Very true. But before the great apostasy, when there was revelation -- when God chose His own servants and organized His own church instead of picking it out of a line-up of existing manmade churches and societies -- He didn't exactly rely on résumés. The prophet Jeremiah wrote of his calling:

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Then said I, Ah, Lord God! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child! But the Lord said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak. ... Thou therefore gird up thy loins, and arise, and speak unto them all that I command thee: be not dismayed at their faces, lest I confound thee before them. For, behold, I have made thee this day a defenced city, and an iron pillar, and brasen walls against the whole land, against the kings of Judah, against the princes thereof, against the priests thereof, and against the people of the land. And they shall fight against thee; but they shall not prevail against thee; for I am with thee, saith the Lord, to deliver thee. (Jeremiah 1)

This seems very different than the God who examined all the world's religions and chose one. He chose Jeremiah and presumably Moses, Ezekiel, Isaiah and all the other prophets before they entered mortality, and he ordained them. And if He chose Russell, Rutherford and others, including all the members of the Governing Body, then He chose them and ordained them before they were born as well. Only why is there no record of it?

When Samuel was still a boy, he heard a voice call his name. When he went to the high priest, Eli, thinking he had called him, the aged priest, after it had happened twice, told the boy if it happened a third time to reply, "Here am I, Lord!" And when it did, he did, and the Lord gave the boy a revelation regarding Eli and His wretched sons. Now if God is unchangeable, as we're told, why would He not give Russell, Rutherford and those among the Governing Body a head's up in a similar fashion? Instead, we're to understand that the Lord came to the earth in 1919 and, after examining all the manmade religions, personally chose the WTBTS as being the closest one to the original church. And if He told no one, how was "The Truth"™ ever notified of this momentous event? That would bother me more than anything else in the religion. (The Society doesn't consider itself a church, oddly, even though Jesus freely used the word in referring to his ancient organization.)

The thing about 1914 and 1919 is that these are both crucial dates. First, Jesus was enthroned as King of Heaven in 1914, having cast Satan out (he was actually cast out before Adam). Next, after establishing himself, he looked over the various religions and, when he saw the WTBTS, he lowered the gavel and declared it to be his true religion. After countless generations of establishing his own organizations, the e Lord finally decided to pick an existing manmade organization and put his stamp on it. Strange, don't you think? That he would change his own modus operandi and pick something established by some men in suits. If I were running Bethel, I'd let a little "new light" in and declare that God inspired the men who built it up and that He, Jehovah of Armies, was behind its establishment. If they keep the story as it is now, they won't be able to frown disapproval when they talk about manmade churches.

7

Scottish Humour

by The Searcher in

a scotsman's cell-phone rings when he's sitting in a cafe with his wife.

when he answers, he says, "aye", and for the next few minutes he just keeps responding to everything the caller is apparently asking, by saying "aye".

the other customers are puzzled by the conversation taking place.. when he ends the call, his wife stares at him inquisitively.. "what's wrong?

Cold Steel

A blonde is driving down the road in the country and sees another blonde in a little rowboat out in an empty field pulling on the oars for all she's worth. The blonde driver pulls off the road, parks, goes over to where the field began and yells to the blonde, "What in the world are you doing?"

The blonde in the boat, still going at it, yells back, "Can't you see? I am rowing this boat across this field!"

Fuming, the first blonde replies, "That's a bunch of foolishness. It's doing things like that, that give us blondes a bad reputation. And if I could swim I'd come out there and kick your ass!"

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